[mb-users] Language of track titles

I'd probably use the band's native language for the title and the track
titles. And even though I don't agree with it, I've seen editors using both
the native language and English for titles of similar releases. A feature
that would allow to store both tracklists (in Hungarian and in English
here), and to display only one based on the users preferences, would be
very neat.

Post by Greg Ward
Hi all --
I'm comparing
http://musicbrainz.org/release/881b0e35-6e2f-3294-a5c4-acb0bf92e1df
(note English release title and track titles) to the CD in my hand.
It's a release by a Hungarian band, and the liner notes are all in
Hungarian. The song titles are listed on the CD cover in Hungarian
first, then with English. The name of the album is Hungarian on the
front cover, English on the spine, and both on the back cover.
What's the style policy here? Should I change the release title and
track titles in MBZ to Hungarian, or keep them English?
Thanks --
Greg
--
Greg Ward http://www.gerg.ca
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Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

2014-07-18 07:50:49 UTC

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Jazzy Jarilith <jazzyjarilith at gmail.com>

Post by Jazzy Jarilith
I'd probably use the band's native language for the title and the track
titles. And even though I don't agree with it, I've seen editors using both
the native language and English for titles of similar releases. A feature
that would allow to store both tracklists (in Hungarian and in English
here), and to display only one based on the users preferences, would be
very neat.

You could always keep this English one as a pseudo-release, add the
Hungarian one (reusing recordings and in the same RG) and link the two with
the "translated tracklist" relationship, if you want to keep both.
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Wieland Hoffmann

2014-07-18 07:53:41 UTC

Post by Greg Ward
Hi all --
I'm comparing
http://musicbrainz.org/release/881b0e35-6e2f-3294-a5c4-acb0bf92e1df
[...]
What's the style policy here? Should I change the release title and
track titles in MBZ to Hungarian, or keep them English?

I don't think we have any guidelines covering this, but I'd keep the
release and track title as they are and change the language of the
release to english, simply because this MBID has had english titles
behind it for 11 years.

You can then create a new release with the hungarian titles and link the
two with the "translated" relationship [0] which does cover cases like

Post by Greg Ward
All translated and transliterated versions of a release should be
linked to a single official release. If there is more than one
official release, use the version which has titles in the artist's
native language as the release to which a link is made.

[0] https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/fc399d47-23a7-4c28-bfcf-0607a562b644

--
Wieland

Frederic Da Vitoria

2014-07-18 08:01:32 UTC

I don't think we have any guidelines covering this, but I'd keep the
release and track title as they are and change the language of the
release to english, simply because this MBID has had english titles
behind it for 11 years.
You can then create a new release with the hungarian titles and link the
two with the "translated" relationship [0] which does cover cases like

[0]
https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/fc399d47-23a7-4c28-bfcf-0607a562b644

I wonder about using translated AR: there is only one release, creating a
new Release in MB would suggest there are 2 physically distinct releases
with different languages, which is not what is happening here.

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - ? promouvoir et d?fendre le logiciel libre ? -
http://www.april.org
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Wieland Hoffmann

2014-07-18 16:53:52 UTC

I don't think we have any guidelines covering this, but I'd keep the
release and track title as they are and change the language of the
release to english, simply because this MBID has had english titles
behind it for 11 years.
You can then create a new release with the hungarian titles and link the
two with the "translated" relationship [0] which does cover cases like

[0]
https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/fc399d47-23a7-4c28-bfcf-0607a562b644

Well, I'm not sure what alternatives there are. The release clearly
lists both english and hungarian titles [0], so neither of them are more
correct or official than the others. Unless you want to include both
languages in one tracklist, there's not much we can do other than
creating a new release with the hungarian tracklist.

[0] http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=617418

--
Wieland

Tom Crocker

2014-07-18 17:13:29 UTC

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
I wonder about using translated AR: there is only one release, creating a
new Release in MB would suggest there are 2 physically distinct releases
with different languages, which is not what is happening here.

I would have thought best to do as Nicolas suggested: change this release
to a pseudo-release in English, but then also create a pseudo-release in
Hungarian and an official release showing what was on the cover (all linked
together). That's what the style guide says:
"If the release has tracks listed in multiple languages, the entry with
both languages included is considered to be the official release. Entries
with only one of the languages on the cover should be set to
pseudo-release."
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release
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Wieland Hoffmann

2014-07-18 18:17:48 UTC

I would have thought best to do as Nicolas suggested: change this release
to a pseudo-release in English, but then also create a pseudo-release in
Hungarian and an official release showing what was on the cover (all linked
"If the release has tracks listed in multiple languages, the entry with
both languages included is considered to be the official release. Entries
with only one of the languages on the cover should be set to
pseudo-release."
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release

Ah, so we do have a guideline about this, although I've never seen it
applied to any release. In that case, do what the guideline says :-)

--
Wieland

Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren

2014-07-18 18:36:25 UTC

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Wieland Hoffmann <themineo at gmail.com>

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
I wonder about using translated AR: there is only one release,

creating a

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
new Release in MB would suggest there are 2 physically distinct

releases

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
with different languages, which is not what is happening here.

Well, I'm not sure what alternatives there are. The release clearly
lists both english and hungarian titles [0], so neither of them are

Post by Wieland Hoffmann
correct or official than the others. Unless you want to include both
languages in one tracklist, there's not much we can do other than
creating a new release with the hungarian tracklist.

linked

Post by Tom Crocker
"If the release has tracks listed in multiple languages, the entry with
both languages included is considered to be the official release. Entries
with only one of the languages on the cover should be set to
pseudo-release."
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release

Ah, so we do have a guideline about this, although I've never seen it
applied to any release. In that case, do what the guideline says :-)

I've honestly never seen any release entered like that - and I would think
it a mistake if I did! :/ I was just suggesting the two releases with the
independent languages without a combined one... but I guess if there's a
guideline you might want to follow it.
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Jazzy Jarilith

2014-07-18 19:01:55 UTC

I've seen it applied sometimes but I didn't know it was a guideline... I'd
have never thought of entering a release like this either, it does not make
much sense to me to have songs with redundant titles.

Post by NicolÃ¡s Tamargo de Eguren
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Wieland Hoffmann <themineo at gmail.com>

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
I wonder about using translated AR: there is only one release,

creating a

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
new Release in MB would suggest there are 2 physically distinct

releases

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
with different languages, which is not what is happening here.

Well, I'm not sure what alternatives there are. The release clearly
lists both english and hungarian titles [0], so neither of them are

I would have thought best to do as Nicolas suggested: change this

release

Post by Tom Crocker
to a pseudo-release in English, but then also create a pseudo-release in
Hungarian and an official release showing what was on the cover (all

linked

Post by Tom Crocker
"If the release has tracks listed in multiple languages, the entry with
both languages included is considered to be the official release.

Entries

Post by Tom Crocker
with only one of the languages on the cover should be set to
pseudo-release."
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release

Ah, so we do have a guideline about this, although I've never seen it
applied to any release. In that case, do what the guideline says :-)

I've honestly never seen any release entered like that - and I would think
it a mistake if I did! :/ I was just suggesting the two releases with the
independent languages without a combined one... but I guess if there's a
guideline you might want to follow it.
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Frederic Da Vitoria

2014-07-18 20:59:09 UTC

Post by NicolÃ¡s Tamargo de Eguren
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Wieland Hoffmann <themineo at gmail.com>

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
I wonder about using translated AR: there is only one release,

creating a

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
new Release in MB would suggest there are 2 physically distinct

releases

Post by Frederic Da Vitoria
with different languages, which is not what is happening here.

Well, I'm not sure what alternatives there are. The release clearly
lists both english and hungarian titles [0], so neither of them are

I would have thought best to do as Nicolas suggested: change this

release

Post by Tom Crocker
to a pseudo-release in English, but then also create a pseudo-release in
Hungarian and an official release showing what was on the cover (all

linked

Post by Tom Crocker
"If the release has tracks listed in multiple languages, the entry with
both languages included is considered to be the official release.

Entries

Post by Tom Crocker
with only one of the languages on the cover should be set to
pseudo-release."
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Release

Ah, so we do have a guideline about this, although I've never seen it
applied to any release. In that case, do what the guideline says :-)

Your suggestion is the best IMO. Why would you see it as a mistake?

Tom Crocker

2014-07-18 21:19:35 UTC